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Firearms

Contents

Guns are not strangers to fantasy. The earliest authors of fantasy and weird fiction often included guns in their stories. Heroes like Burroughs’s John Carter or Howard’s Solomon Kane carried pistols alongside their swords, and it’s hard to imagine a pirate ship without cannons blazing. These authors likely included guns because they are exciting, but also because the guns they chose were primitive ones—relatively unpredictable weapons, prone to misfire and malfunction. This made firearms excellent storytelling devices. Such weapons could cause hero or villain to falter or triumph, changing the action within the tale in a flash or a fizzle. Still, a firearm remains an ominous and terrible weapon in the hands of a skilled gunman.

This section presents an anachronistic collection of hand-held black powder weapons. Most of them are single-shot muzzle-loaders with highly inefficient triggering mechanisms—traditional sword and sorcery firearms. More advanced firearms are also presented for those brave enough to mix their fantasy with a technology much closer to that of the Old West than the slow and unstable weapons that gave musketeers their name. If you are interested in letting such weapons in your game, do so with the following warning: Advanced guns can substantially change the assumptions of your game world, in the same way that they changed the face of warfare in the real world. If you like your fantasy to be of the more traditional variety, stand clear. Or, better yet, run for cover.

Firearms in Your Campaign

Firearms and gunslingers are not for every campaign, and even if you are excited about introducing firearms into your campaign, you should still make a decision about how commonplace they are. The following are broad categories of firearm rarity and the rules that govern them. Pathfinder’s campaign setting uses the rules for emerging guns, which is also the default category of gun rarity.

No Guns: If you do not want guns in your campaign, simply don’t allow the rules that follow. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game plays perfectly well without them.

Very Rare Guns: Early firearms are rare; advanced firearms, the gunslinger class, the Amateur Gunslinger feat, and archetypes that use the firearm rules do not exist in this type of campaign. Firearms are treated more like magic items—things of wonder and mystery—rather than like things that are mass-produced. Few know the strange secrets of firearm creation. Only NPCs can take the Gunsmithing feat.

Emerging Guns: Firearms become more common. They are mass-produced by small guilds, lone gunsmiths, dwarven clans, or maybe even a nation or two—the secret is slipping out, and the occasional rare adventurer uses guns. The baseline gunslinger rules and the prices for ammunition given in this chapter are for this type of campaign. Early firearms are available, but are relatively rare. Adventurers who want to use guns must take the Gunsmithing feat just to make them feasible weapons. Advanced firearms may exist, but only as rare and wondrous items—the stuff of high-level treasure troves.

Commonplace Guns: While still expensive and tricky to wield, early firearms are readily available. Instead of requiring the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat, all firearms are martial weapons. Early firearms and their ammunition cost 25% of the amounts listed in this book, but advanced firearms and their ammunition are still rare and cost the full price to purchase or craft.

Guns Everywhere: Guns are commonplace. Early firearms are seen as antiques, and advanced firearms are widespread. Firearms are simple weapons, and early firearms, advanced guns, and their ammunition are bought or crafted for 10% of the cost listed in this chapter. The gunslinger loses the gunsmith class feature and instead gains the gun training class feature at 1st level.

Firearm Rules

Firearms work differently from other ranged projectile weapons—they instead use the following rules.

Firearm Proficiency: The Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat allows you to use all firearms without penalty. A nonproficient character takes the standard –4 penalty on attack rolls with firearms, and a nonproficient character who loads a firearm increases all misfire values by 4 for the shots he loads.

Even though the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat grants you proficiency with all firearms, anytime you take a feat that modifies a single type of weapon (such as Weapon Focus or Rapid Reload), you must still pick one specific type of firearm (such as musket, axe musket, blunderbuss, pistol, or double pistol) for that feat to affect.

All firearms are part of the same weapon group for the purposes of the fighter’sweapon training class feature.

Capacity: A firearm’s capacity is the number of shots it can hold at one time. When making a full-attack action, you may fire a firearm as many times in a round as you have attacks, up to this limit, unless you can reload the weapon as a swift or free action while making a full-attack action. In the case of early firearms, capacity often indicates the number of barrels a firearm has. In the case of advanced firearms, it typically indicates the number of chambers the weapon has.

Range and Penetration: Armor, whether manufactured or natural, provides little protection against the force of a bullet at short range.

Early Firearms: When firing an early firearm, the attack resolves against the target’s touch AC when the target is within the first range increment of the weapon, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim. At higher range increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment. Unlike other projectile weapons, early firearms have a maximum range of five range increments.

Advanced Firearms: Advanced firearms resolve their attacks against touch AC when the target is within the first five range increments, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats such as Deadly Aim. At higher range increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full-range increment. Advanced firearms have a maximum range of 10 range increments.

Loading a Firearm: You need at least one hand free to load one-handed and two-handed firearms. In the case of two-handed firearms, you hold the weapon in one hand and load it with the other—you only need to hold it in two hands to aim and shoot the firearm. Loading siege firearms requires both hands, and one hand usually manipulates a large ramrod (which can be wielded as a club in combat). The Rapid Reload feat reduces the time required to load one-handed and two-handed firearms, but this feat does not reduce the time it takes to load siege firearms.

Loading any firearm provokes attacks of opportunity. Other rules for loading a firearm depend on whether the firearm is an early firearm or an advanced firearm.

Early Firearms: Early firearms are muzzle-loaded, requiring bullets or pellets and black powder to be rammed down the muzzle. If an early firearm has multiple barrels, each barrel must be loaded separately. It is a standard action to load each barrel of a one-handed early firearm and a full-round action to load each barrel of a two-handed early firearm. It takes three full-round actions by one person to load a siege firearm. This can be reduced to two full-round actions if more than one person is loading the cannon.

Advanced Firearms: Advanced firearms are chamber-loaded. It is a move action to load a one-handed or two-handed advanced firearm to its full capacity. The Rapid Reload feat reduces this to a free action.

If I roll a misfire when attempting to confirm a critical hit with a firearm, what happens?

You cannot misfire on a critical hit confirmation roll. If you roll a misfire when attempting to confirm a critical hit, just treat it as a normal result of the die (which might confirm the crit or fail to do so).

[Source]

*Misfires: (See FAQ) If the natural result of your attack roll falls within a firearm’s misfire value, that shot misses, even if you would have otherwise hit the target. When a firearm misfires, it gains the broken condition. While it has the broken condition, it suffers the normal disadvantages that broken weapons do, and its misfire value increases by 4 unless the wielder has gun training in the particular type of firearm (see Gunslinger). In that case, the misfire value increases by 2 instead of 4.

Early Firearms: If an early firearm with the broken condition misfires again, it explodes. When a nonmagical firearm explodes, the weapon is destroyed. Magical firearms are wrecked, which means they can’t fire until they are fully restored (which requires either the make whole spell or the Gunsmithing feat). When a gun explodes, pick one corner of your square—the explosion creates a burst from that point of origin. Each firearm has a burst size noted in parentheses after its misfire value. Any creature within this burst (including the firearm’s wielder) takes damage as if it had been hit by the weapon—a DC 12 Reflex save halves this damage.

Advanced Firearms: Advanced firearms can misfire, but when they do, they only gain the broken condition. A further misfire does not cause advanced firearms to explode.

Ammunition: Firearm ammunition takes two forms: either black powder and shot (either bullets or pellets) or cartridges. Unlike other types of ammunition, firearm ammunition is destroyed when it is used, and has no chance of being retrieved on a miss. No part of a cartridge can be reused to create new cartridges. Firearm ammunition cannot be treated with poison, unless you are using a pitted bullet.

Concealing Firearms: Like light weapons and hand crossbows, one-handed firearms are easy to conceal on your person. Some smaller firearms (like the coat pistol) can grant bonuses to conceal a weapon on your person.

Do the inappropriately sized firearms rules allow a Medium or smaller creature to use larger firearms of any size?

The text of the rule is, “The size of a firearm never affects how many hands you need to use to shoot it.” The intent of that rule was to prevent a Medium character from using a Small rifle as a one-handed pistol; it wasn’t intended to let a Medium character use a Large, Huge, Gargantuan, or Colossal two-handed firearm as a two-handed weapon. Just like with non-firearms, a creature cannot wield a weapon that’s far too big or small for it. Specifically in the case of firearms, a Medium character can’t use a two-handed firearm sized for a Large or larger creature, and a Small character can’t use a two-handed firearm sized for a Medium or larger creature.

[Source]

*Inappropriately Sized Firearms: (See FAQ) You cannot make optimum use of a firearm that is not properly sized for you. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between your size and the size of the firearm. If you are not proficient with the firearm, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies. The size of a firearm never affects how many hands you need to use to shoot it, the exception being siege firearms and Large or larger creatures. In most cases, a Large or larger creature can use a siege firearm as a two-handed firearm, but the creature takes a –4 penalty for using it this way because of its awkwardness.

Bucklers: You can use a one-handed or two-handed firearm without penalty while carrying a buckler.

Fire while Prone: Firearms, like crossbows, can be fired while their wielders are prone.

Firearms, Black Powder, and Water: Black powder becomes useless when exposed to water, but powder horns and cartridges protect black powder from exposure. You cannot normally load an early firearm underwater or fire any firearm underwater without magical aid.

Deflecting and Snatching Bullets: The Deflect Arrows feat and the Snatch Arrows feat can be used to deflect bullets, but not pellets shot from a scatter weapon. Neither of these feats can be used to deflect siege firearm attacks.

Firearm Descriptions

There are two general categories of firearms: early and advanced. Firearms are further divided into one-handed, two-handed, and siege firearms. As the category’s name implies, one-handed firearms need only one hand to wield and shoot. Two-handed firearms work best when you use two-hands while shooting them. Two-handed firearms can be shot with one hand at a –4 penalty on the attack roll.

Siege weapons are typically mounted on some sort of platform, movable or otherwise, and have greater power but a much slower rate of fire—they’re detailed in their own section.

Scatter Weapon Quality: A weapon with the scatter weapon quality can shoot two different types of ammunition. It can fire normal bullets that target one creature, or it can make a scattering shot, attacking all creatures within a cone. Cannons with the scatter weapon quality only fire grapeshot, unless their descriptions state otherwise. When a scatter weapon attacks all creatures within a cone, it makes a separate attack roll against each creature within the cone. Each attack roll takes a –2 penalty, and its attack damage cannot be modified by precision damage or damage-increasing feats such as Vital Strike. Effects that grant concealment, such as fog or smoke, or the blur, invisibility, or mirror image spells, do not foil a scatter attack. If any of the attack rolls threaten a critical, confirm the critical for that attack roll alone. A firearm that makes a scatter shot misfires only if all of the attack rolls made misfire. If a scatter weapon explodes on a misfire, it deals triple its damage to all creatures within the misfire radius.

Early Firearms

Early firearms are typically matchlock, wheellock, or flintlock weapons, and require more finesse and care to use than advanced firearms. Early firearms are muzzle-loaded, requiring a bullet and powder (or other special alchemical substances) to be shoved down the barrel before the weapon is fired. Early firearm ammunition can be loaded from a cartridge, but that cartridge is made of soft material (like paper or cloth) that is torn open so that the contents may be shoved down the barrel.

Early Firearms
(Early) One-Handed FirearmsCostDmg (S)Dmg (M)CriticalRangeMisfireCapacityWeight1Type2SpecialSource
Breech-loader3,000 gp1d41d6×420 ft.1 (5 ft.)24 lbs.B and P
Buckler gun750 gp1d41d6×410 ft.1 (5 ft.)26 lbs.B and PPRG:UC
Pepperbox3,000 gp1d61d8×420 ft.1–2 (5 ft.)65 lbs.B and PPRG:UC
Pistol1,000 gp1d61d8×420 ft.1 (5 ft.)14 lbs.B and PPRG:UC
Pistol, coat750 gp1d31d4×310 ft.1 (5 ft.)11 lb.B and PPRG:UC
Pistol, dagger740 gp1d31d4×310 ft.1 (5 ft.)11 lb.B and PPRG:UC
Pistol, double-barreled1,750 gp1d61d8×420 ft.1–2 (5 ft.)25 lbs.B and PPRG:UC
Pistol, dragon1,000 gp1d41d6×420 ft.1–2 (5 ft.)13 lbs.B and PscatterPRG:UC
Pistol, dragoon1,500 gp1d61d8x330 ft.1 (5 ft.)35 lbs.B and PPZO1136
Pistol, paddle-foot2,500 gp1d41d6x320 ft.1-2 (5 ft.)45 lbs.B and PscatterPZO9486
Pistol, sword cane775 gp1d31d4×310 ft.1 (5 ft.)11 lb.B and PPRG:UC
(Early) Two-Handed FirearmsCostDmg (S)Dmg (M)CriticalRangeMisfireCapacityWeight1Type2SpecialSource
Air repeater600 gp1d61d8×450 ft.1 (see text)66 lbs.B and P
Blunderbuss2,000 gp1d61d8×2special1–2 (10 ft.)18 lbs.B and PscatterPRG:UC
Culverin4,000 gp2d62d8×430 ft.1 (10 ft.)140 lbs.B and PscatterPRG:UC
Cylinder rifle6,000 gp1d61d8x440 ft.1-3 (10 ft.)812 lbs.B and PPZO9486
Double hackbut4,000 gp2d102d12×450 ft.1–2 (5 ft.)218 lbs.B and PPRG:UC
Fire lance25 gp1d41d6×410 ft.1–4 (5 ft.)14 lbs.PPRG:UC
Musket1,500 gp1d101d12×440 ft.1–2 (5 ft.)19 lbs.B and PPRG:UC
Musket, axe1,600 gp1d61d8×430 ft.1–2 (5 ft.)16 lbs.B and PPRG:UC
Musket, double-barreled2,500 gp1d101d12×440 ft.1–3 (5 ft.)211 lbs.B and PPRG:UC
Musket, dragoon2,000 gp1d101d12x360 ft.1-2 (5 ft.)312 lbs.B and PPZO1136
Musket, warhammer1,600 gp1d61d8×430 ft.1–2 (5 ft.)16 lbs.B and PPRG:UC
Advanced Firearms
(Advanced) One-Handed FirearmsCostDmg (S)Dmg (M)CriticalRangeMisfireCapacityWeight1Type2SpecialSource
Revolver4,000 gp1d61d8×420 ft.164 lbs.B and PPRG:UC
(Advanced) Two-Handed FirearmsCostDmg (S)Dmg (M)CriticalRangeMisfireCapacityWeight1Type2SpecialSource
Rifle5,000 gp1d81d10×480 ft.1112 lbs.B and PPRG:UC
Rifle, pepperbox7,000 gp1d81d10×480 ft.1–2415 lbs.B and PPRG:UC
Shotgun5,000 gp1d61d8×220 ft.1–2112 lbs.B and PscatterPRG:UC
Shotgun, double-barreled7,000 gp1d61d8×220 ft.1–2215 lbs.B and PscatterPRG:UC

1 Weight figures are for Medium weapons. A Small weapon weighs half as much, and a Large weapon weighs twice as much.
2 A weapon with two types is both types if the entry specifies “and.”

Advanced Firearms

Advanced firearms are more reliable and accurate than early firearms. The ammunition of an advanced firearm takes the form of metal (usually brass) cartridges that are loaded into a chamber rather than shoved down the muzzle.

Firearm Ammunition and Adventuring Gear

Those who wield guns have a number of options when it comes to loading their weapons, and often need gunsmith’s kits to provide proper care and upkeep for their firearms.

An alchemical cartridge is a prepared bundle of black powder with a bullet or pellets, sometimes with more exotic material added, which is then wrapped in paper or cloth and sealed with beeswax, lard, or tallow. There are many types of alchemical cartridges, the simplest being the paper cartridge—a simple mix of black powder and either pellets or a bullet. Alchemical cartridges make loading a firearm easier, reducing the time to load a firearm by one step (a full-round action becomes a standard action, a standard action becomes a move action, and a move action becomes a free action), but they tend to be unstable. The misfire value of a weapon firing an alchemical cartridge increases as listed in each entry.

ItemCostWeightSource
Alchemical cartridge, dragon’s breath40 gpPRG:UC
Alchemical cartridge, entangling shot40 gpPRG:UC
Alchemical cartridge, flare10 gpPRG:UC
Alchemical cartridge, paper (bullet or pellet)12 gpPRG:UC
Alchemical cartridge, salt shot12 gpPRG:UC
Black powder (dose)10 gpPRG:UC
Black powder (keg)1,000 gp5 lbs.PRG:UC
Dragoon Cartridge30 gpPZO1136
Firearm bullet (1)1 gpPRG:UC
Firearm bullet (30)30 gp1/2 lb.PRG:UC
Bullet, adamantine61 gpPRG:UC
Firearm bullet, pitted5 gpPRG:UC
Firearm bullet, silver25 gpPRG:UC
Gunsmith’s kit15 gp2 lb.PRG:UC
Metal cartridge15 gpPRG:UC
Pellets (handful)1 gpPRG:UC
Pellets (30 handfuls)30 gp1/2 lb.PRG:UC
Powder horn3 gp1 lb.PRG:UC

Does not include the cost of poison compound.

Modern Firearms

Modern firearms have their own page here.

Firearm Adventuring Gear Descriptions

Gunsmith’s Kit

This small kit has all the tools a person needs to create, repair, and restore firearms, except for the necessary raw materials. Without such a kit, you cannot properly construct or provide upkeep for firearms.

Powder Horn

Typically crafted from animal horn, but increasingly crafted from metal in a wide variety of shapes, a powder horn can hold up to 10 doses of black powder. A powder horn protects black powder stored within in it from exposure to fire, electricity, firearm misfires, and water.

Firearm Magic Items

The following magic items and magic qualities all pertain to firearms. Most grant extra abilities or protections to the firearm user, but others protect creatures from some of the effects of firearms.

Firearm Ammunition Special Abilities

The following special ability allows a firearm to be fired with the affected ammunition in environments without air, including underwater.

Dry Load

Aura faint abjuration; CL 3rd; Price 30 gp per cartridge or 1,500 gp for 50 cartridges

DESCRIPTION

This special ability can only be applied to alchemical or metal firearm cartridges. Dry load cartridges can be used to load guns underwater or in other airless environments, such as a vacuum. This ability protects the cartridge’s contents as it is being loaded and creates a residual bubble of air that surrounds the firearm, further protecting the ammunition and allowing the firearm with this ammunition to be fired in an airless environment. After the cartridge is loaded, the bubble of air lasts for 3 minutes, or until the firearm is fired, whichever occurs first. A firearm loaded with this ammunition still takes the –2 penalty on attack rolls when fired underwater for every 5 feet of water the bullet passes through, in addition to the normal penalties to range. When firing a dry load cartridge underwater or in an airless environment, a misfire that results in a firearm explosion occurs normally.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

FeatsCraft Magic Arms and Armor; Spellsair bubble

Specific Firearm Ammunition

Several types of magical bullets have been developed to be used with firearms. The following represent just a few of these types.

Burrowing Bullet

Aura moderate necromancy; CL 9th (burrowing bullet) or 13th (greater burrowing bullet); Slot none; Price 1,722 gp (burrowing bullet) or 3,447 gp (greater burrowing bullet); Weight

DESCRIPTION

This +1 firearm bullet deals normal damage, but when it hits a living creature, it burrows into the creature’s flesh, causing wracking pain until removed or until the bullet burrows its way out of the creature. While these bullets burrow, the creature is staggered. This effect lasts for 1d3 rounds or until the bullet is removed with a DC 15 Heal check made as a standard action. Greater burrowing bullets take longer to pass though the bodies of living creatures (the staggered effect lasts 1d3+2 rounds) and are harder to remove (DC 20 Heal check as a standard action).

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

FeatsCraft Magic Arms and Armor; Spellssymbol of pain (burrowing bullet) or symbol of stunning (greater burrowing bullet); Cost 861 gp (burrowing bullet) or 1,723 gp (greater burrowing bullet)

Tracer Bullet

Aura faint evocation; CL 2nd; Slot none; Price 100 gp; Weight

DESCRIPTION

These +1 firearm bullets deal no damage, but instead cause a pale glow to outline the target, granting the effect of a faerie fire spell and causing the target to take a –2 penalty to AC against ranged attacks. These effects last for 1d4 rounds.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

FeatsCraft Magic Arms and Armor; Spellsfaerie fire; Cost 50 gp

Magic Firearm Special Abilities

The following special abilities are exclusively for firearms.

Lucky

Aura moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Price +1 bonus

DESCRIPTION

This special ability can only be placed on one-handed or two-handed firearms. A lucky firearm has its own magical reservoir of grit. Usually this grit is stored within the marks of an engraving or in a trinket that hangs from the firearm. Often these marks take the form of holy symbols or fetishes, but such a reservoir can take just about any form. This reservoir holds 1 grit point, which is refreshed at the start of each day. Whether or not the wielder of a lucky firearm has any deeds, she can always spend 1 grit point from the lucky firearm to reroll an attack from it that would result in a misfire. When the wielder does so, she must take the second result, even if that attack roll also results in a misfire.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

FeatsCraft Magic Arms and Armor; Spellsheroism; Special creator must be a grit user

Lucky, Greater

Aura moderate enchantment; CL 12th; Price +3 bonus

DESCRIPTION

This special ability can only be placed on one-handed or two-handed firearms. A greater lucky firearm is nearly identical to a lucky gun, but its reservoir holds 3 grit points instead of 1. A firearm cannot have both this special ability and the lucky special ability.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

FeatsCraft Magic Arms and Armor; Spellsgreater heroism; Special creator must be a grit user

Reliable

Aura moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Price +1 bonus

DESCRIPTION

This special ability can only be placed on firearms. A reliable firearm is enchanted so that it is less likely to jam than other firearms. This enchantment reduces the misfire value of the affected firearm by 1 (minimum 0). This reduction occurs after any increases are calculated for firing with the broken condition, or for any other effect that might increase the misfire value of a firearm.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

FeatsCraft Magic Arms and Armor; Spellsmending

Reliable, Greater

Aura moderate enchantment; CL 12th; Price +3 bonus

DESCRIPTION

This special ability can only be placed on one-handed or two-handed firearms. A greater reliable firearm is enchanted so as to be less likely to jam than other firearms. It reduces the misfire value of the affected firearm by 4 (minimum 0). This reduction occurs after any increases are calculated for firing with the broken condition, or for any other effect that might increase the misfire value of a firearm. A firearm with greater reliable cannot have the reliable special ability.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

FeatsCraft Magic Arms and Armor; Spellsmake whole

Wondrous Items

The following wondrous items either enhance firearms or protect against them.

Amulet of Bullet Protection

Aura faint abjuration; CL 5th; Slot neck; Price 1,500 gp (+1), 6,000 gp (+2), 13,500 gp (+3), 24,000 gp (+4), or 37,500 gp (+5); Weight

DESCRIPTION

This amulet, usually crafted from the splintered remains of spent firearm bullets shaped into a rough holy symbol or clover, grants the wearer a luck bonus to AC against firearm attacks that target touch AC.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

FeatsCraft Wondrous Item; Spellsdivine favor, creator’s caster level must be at least three times the amulet’s bonus; Cost 750 gp (+1), 3,000 gp (+2), 6,750 gp (+3), 12,000 gp (+4), 18,7500 gp (+5)

Dry Load Powder Horn

Aura faint conjuration; CL 3rd; Slot none (see below); Price 2,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

DESCRIPTION

This magical powder horn holds 20 doses of black powder. Furthermore, when a firearm is loaded with black powder directly from this horn, the horn creates a small pocket of air that envelops the gun and allows that shot to be fired underwater or in an area lacking air, such as a vacuum. Once the gun is loaded with powder from the dry load powder horn, it retains the pocket of air for 10 minutes or until the firearm is fired, whichever comes first. Firing a firearm that has been loaded from this horn underwater still incurs the –2 penalty on attack rolls for every 5 feet of water the bullet passes through, in addition to the normal penalties to range. When a shot loaded from a dry load powder horn results in a firearm explosion while underwater or in an airless environment, that explosion occurs normally.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

FeatsCraft Wondrous Item; Spellsair bubble; Cost 1,000 gp

Far-Reaching Sight

Aura faint divination; CL 3rd; Slot none (see below); Price 4,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

DESCRIPTION

This sight can be attached to a single two-handed firearm. When this is done, the sight becomes part of the weapon, but can be removed from that weapon with a full-round action. A firearm wielder can choose to spend a full-round action to make a single shot with a firearm that has this sight. When she does, she can resolve the attack against the touch AC of her target regardless of the range increment.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

FeatsCraft Wondrous Item; Spellstrue strike; Cost 2,000 gp

Figurine of Wondrous Power (Slate Spider)

Aura moderate transmutation; CL 11th; Slot none; Price 10,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

DESCRIPTION

This figure of wondrous power uses the same general rules for all magic items of this type. This statuette of a spider with stubby legs can be used once per day for 1 minute. When activated, the figurine spouts longer, segmented legs, and scampers about the activator, picking lint off robes, chiseling grime from armor, or otherwise grooming its activator. If commanded to do so as a free action, it perches on the muzzle of a one-handed or two-handed firearm barrel and, after the firearm is fired, travels down the barrel and cleans out the firearm. Each time the slate spider cleans a firearm, the next shot the firearm fires has no chance of misfiring.

When animated, a slate spider has 1 hit point and is considered an attended object. An animated slate spider will never willingly leave space of its animator.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

FeatsCraft Wondrous Item; Spellsanimate objects; Cost 5,000 gp

Oil of Silence

Aura faint illusion; CL 5th; Slot none; Price 250 gp; Weight

DESCRIPTION

When applied to a one-handed or two-handed firearm, this strange grayish oil renders that firearm silent for 1 hour. Five vials of oil of silence can be used in conjunction to silence a Large firearm siege engine, and 10 can be used to silence a Huge firearm siege engine. The oil does not work on firearm siege engines that are larger than Huge.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

FeatsCraft Wondrous Item; Spellssilence; Cost 125 gp

See Invisibility Sight

Aura moderate divination; CL 8th; Slot none (see below); Price 12,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

DESCRIPTION

This sight can be attached to a single two-handed firearm. When this is done, the sight becomes part of the weapon, but can be removed from that weapon with a full-round action. A firearm wielder using a firearm that has this sight can choose to spend a full-round action to either locate an invisible creature within line of sight or make a single shot that ignores the invisibility of a creature that she knows is in the area.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

FeatsCraft Wondrous Item; Spellstrue seeing; Cost 6,000 gp

Sours: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipmenT/weapons/firearms/

Pathfinder – Practical Guide to Firearms

Last Updated: June 20, 2021

Introduction

Ultimate Combat introduced firearms alongside the Gunslinger class. The Ultimate Equipment Guide includes rules for new firearms. With the sizable list of weapons, feats, and class archetypes which support firearms, many classes and characters can make use of these potent weapons.

To make the best use of firearms, we must first understand how they work, and examine what options are available to us. Start by reading the Firearms section in the Ultimate Equipment guide. It is the most recently written and most complete.

Disclaimer

I support a limited subset of Pathfinder’s rules content. If you would like help with Pathfinder player options
not covered here, please email me and I am happy to provide additional assistance.

RPGBOT uses the color coding scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build handbooks. Also note that many colored items are also links to the Paizo SRD.

  • Red: Bad, useless options, or options which are extremely situational. Nearly never useful.
  • Orange: OK options, or useful options that only apply in rare circumstances. Useful sometimes.
  • Green: Good options. Useful often.
  • Blue: Fantastic options, often essential to the function of your character. Useful very frequently.

Proficiency

Unlike most exotic weapons, firearms all use one feat for proficiency. This means that anyone can come along and learn to use every firearm with a single feat. Any class or archetype which depends on firearms will provide this feat for free. Rogues who want to dabble in firearms can take the Firearm Training talent.

Capacity

Capacity is one of the early limitations on damage output for gun users. Additional barrels allows you make additional attacks before needing to reload, which can help give you an advantage early in a fight.

Range and Penetration

Penetration is what sets firearms apart from other ranged weapons. Though
their damage isn’t that much better than normal weapons, firearms can be used
against touch AC, but without technically being touch attacks. This allows the
application of Deadly Aim, thereby dramatically increasing your damage output
while making attacks which are nearly guranteed to hit.

Early firearms can only penetrate within their first range increment, so
pistol users will be within 20 feet and musket users within 40. This
limitation has major tactical implications for gun users, and places a great
deal of importance on good positioning and careful tactical movement.

Loading a Firearm

Loading your weapon is the hardest part of using a gun. One-handed weapons (pistols, etc.) take a Standard Action, and two-handed weapons (muskets, etc.) take a Full Round Action, and that’s just for a single barrel. Either way, you’re only going to be able to attack once ever other round unless your weapon has a capacity above 1 or you are carrying multiple guns.

Rapid Reload is basically required for gun users. Pistol users can load and make a single attack in a turn, and Musket users can reload and move in the same turn. In addition, you can use Alchemical Cartridges to reduce the reload time further. Combined with rapid reload, you can reload one-handed firearms as a free action, and you can reload two-handed firearms as a move action.

It is unclear if Metal Cartridges, which are used for Advaned Firearms, reduce the reload time. Advaned Firearms onle use metal cartridges, and the entry on advanced firearms states that they take a move action to fully load. The description for Metal Cartridges describes them as more advanced alchemical cartdidges, which could be interpreted to mean that they reduce the move action reload time to a free action. I would rule that Advanced Firearms take a move action to full load, but then expand Rapid Reload (which doesn’t mention advanced firearms) to allow characters to reload their advanced firearms as a free action.

Misfires

Misfires are a pain. The first will break your weapon, and the second will destroy it unless it is magical or advanced. This limitation can’t really be overcome, but the Gunslinger gets some options to recover from misfires.

Ammunition

Major sticker shock here. The first thing you may notice is that ammunition is incredibly expensive. If you’re firing alchemical cartridges (and you should be), each shot costs 12 gp. Using black powder and a seperate bullet is only slightly cheaper at 11 gp per shot, and takes longer to reload. Every time you fire, you’re shooting a pile of money at people. At some point you might consider just paying enemies to go away to save money on ammunition.

Alchemical cartridges also include special ammunition. The Tangling Shot and Flare Shot provide interesting tactical options, but keep in mind that the DCs aren’t spectacular, and they don’t scale at all. Flare Shot is cheap enough that you can afford to retry it until it works, but you will have better results using Tanglefoot bags instead of Tangling Shot.

Scatter Weapons

Scatter weapons offer an interesting tactical option. Instead of firing a single bullet, Scatter weapons can fire a cone, making an attak against each target in the cone. Assuming you have several targets grouped in such a way that you can hit several with a cone, this could allow you hit several additional targets with a single attack. Combined with multiple attacks from a full attack, you can do a lot of damage.

Firing cones from scatter weapons prevents you from using damage-increasing feats to increase the damage, which includes Point-Blank Shot and Deadly Aim. You will be dependant on Weapon Training, weapon enhancements, and normal damage dice. Because damage dice don’t generally keep pace with damage from feats, and because the cone size for early firearms is very small, it can be difficult to use Scatter weapons effectively. However, the Shotgun’s 30 foot cone is enormous, and can be used to great effect.

In general, scatter weapons deal less damage than their non-scatter equivalent, and have higher misfire chance (compare Pistol to Dragon Pistol, and Blunderbuss to Musket). If you do not plan to actively use the Scatter shot, use non-scatter weapons and forge that the option exists.

Double-Barreled Weapons

Double-barreled weapons are generally overlooked, but startlingly powerful. The second barrel allows you to make an additional attack (though both attacks are made at a steep -4 penalty) as part of the same action. Assuming I haven’t horribly misread the rules, this means that each of your attacks can fire both barrels. As you gain levels, your attack bonuses will greatly outstrip touch AC. The -4 penalty will stop mattering, and doubling your damage is likely worth the penalty. Double-barreled weapons generally also have a higher misfire chance.

Picking a Firearm

Like any character dependent on weapons, your choice of weapon is a life-long decision which will define how you behave in combat. Rapid Reload only applies to one weapon, and the Gunslinger’s Weapon Training ability only applies to one weapon. This limitation will generally restrict you to a single weapon unless you decide to invest enough feats to train in a second weapon type.

Early Firearms

  • Axe musket: You trade two dice sizes and 10 feet of range for an axe blade. The damage dice change isn’t cripling, but the range loss hurts. If you plan to be in close combat with your gun, this could be a good choice.
  • Blunderbuss: You give up many of the Musket’s advantages for the ability to fire in a cone. The cone size isn’t any bigger than the Dragon Pistol’s, so the blunderbuss isn’t very good.
  • Buckler gun: A very fancy accessory for your buckler, the buckler gun can be a fine backup weapon, but should never serve as your primary weapon. You must remove the buckler to load the pistol, so if you plan to use Two-Weapon Fighting, you would do better with a normal pistol.
  • Coat pistol: Half the range of a normal pistol, which already has poor range. You really only want to use a coat pistol as a backup weapon, so take advantage of the Sleight of Hand bonus to keep it hidden on your person for emergencies.
  • Culverin: The culverin does a lot of damage, but unless you brace it, you will be knocked prone when you fire it and take a -4 penalty to your attack. If you plan to use Vital Strike, this is a solid option. You can use firearms while prone, and the -4 penalty won’t matter much at high levels.
  • Dagger pistol: Like a tiny Axe Musket. The damage is small, and the range is bad. Unless you have a very specific tactic in mind, this is bad. Characters who need to be in melee with a melee weapon should be using something bigger.
  • Double-barreled musket: A musket with a second barrel. If you don’t plan to fire the second barrel, save the money and get a musket.
  • Double-barreled pistol: A pistol with a second barrel. If you don’t plan to fire the second barrel, save the money and get a pistol.
  • Double hackbut: A bigger, scarier version of the Culvering, the Double Hackbut has a two-shot capacity, huge damage, and requires you to drag around a weapon to use it effectively. If you can set up before combat, this is fantastic, but the annoyance of dragging a wagon around makes this weapon difficult to use
  • Dragon pistol: Half the range of a pistol, but you can use it to fire a cone. If you don’t have access to advanced firearms but still need to fire a cone, this is arguably a better option than the Blunderbuss.
  • Fire Lance: I don’t know why anyone would ever use this. It costs 21 gp to fire, and targets normal AC.
  • Pepperbox: At low levels, this reduces the need for Rapid Reload or alchemical cartridges. However, once you fire all six shots you’re right back to using a normal pistol. This can be a good choice for characters who won’t use firearms exclusively, or as a backup weapon if you specialized in something two-handed.
  • Pistol: Probably the most widely used firearm, the pistol can be reloaded as a free action with Rapid Reload and Alchemical Cartridges, which allows you to use it for full attacks. If you can find a way to reload them, you can also use Two-Weapon Fighting with a pair of pistols.
  • Musket: The Musket Master makes the Musket a truly fantastic option. It has the highest damage of any non-cannon firearm, good range, and it’s fairly reliable. Without the Musket Master archetype, you will spend a lot of time reloading, so a Pistol may be a better option.
  • Sword Cane Pistol: Very cool, but not very good. The description also fails to list what stats to use for the sword portion of the weapon.
  • Warhammer Musket: Identical to the axe musket, but with a different damage type on the melee attachment.

Advanced Firearms

  • Double-barreled shotgun: The shotgun’s big appeal is the 30-foot cone, but the appeal doesn’t stop there. Using it to fire bullets doubles the damage dice, making the shotgun more damaging than a rifle. The range is only 20 feet, but remember that advanced weapons penetrate out to 4 range increments. The addition of a second barrel allows you to fire twice before spending a move action to reload, or you can fire both shots at once with the normal double-barreled rules, and reload in the same turn. You may also be able to combine the double-barreled shot with Vital Strike for some very impressive damage. Check with your DM before making any assumptions.
  • Pepperbox Rifle: Slightly less reliable than a rifle, but 4 times the capacity. Because your ammunition doesn’t change the reload speed on advanced weapons, and because Rapid Reload doesn’t reduce the reload speed of two-handed Advanced Firearms (their reload speed is already below a Standard Action), the Pepperbox Rifle is a much better option than the rifle.
  • Revolver: You can’t reduce the reload time past a move action, but a 6 round capacity means you shouldn’t need to reload frequently, especially at low levels. This also means that the revolver can be used for Two-Weapon Fighting very easily because you don’t need a free hand to spin the barrels like you do with a Pepperbox.
  • Rifle: The rifle should be good, but its only real advantage over the musket is range. Granted, it has a huge range advantage, but you can never reduce the reload time below a move action, which limits you to a single shot per round.
  • Shotgun: Double-barreled shotgun is strictly better.

Should I allow firearms in my games?

How many firearms you allow, and what technology level is up to you. Ultimate Combat includes a section on Firearms in Your Campaign. Firearms have wide-reaching implications for the power level of your game, and for the technology level of your setting.

Early vs. Advanced

The difference in technology level between early and advanced firearms is significant. The revolver have a 6 round capacity, allowing the user to make several attacks before needing to reload. The rifle, despite doing very slightly less damage than the musket, has double the range, allowing the user to make touch attacks at a stunning 80 foot range. The pepperbox rifle combines the improvements of the two, adding a 4 round capacity to the rifle. The double-barrelled shotgun adds a second barel to the shotgun, which is the functional replacement for the blunderbuss.

In addition to better capacity and range, advanced firearms penetrate within their first five range increments, dramatically expanding their effective range. You can reload advanced firearms as a move action, which lets you make full attacks much more frequently. Rapid Reload doesn’t appear to affect avanced firearms as written, but that hardly makes them any less amazing.

Sours: https://rpgbot.net/pathfinder/characters/firearms/
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Giant in the Playground Forums > Gaming > Roleplaying Games > D&D 3e/3.5e/d20 > Pathfinder [PF] Scatter Property + Rifle = 80ft cone attack?


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Slipperychicken

2014-07-19, 08:18 PM

I've been kicking this one around for a few months now, and I need your help figuring out how this works.

Gun Scavengers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/gun-scavenger-gunslinger-archetype) (a Gunslinger archetype) get a very interesting deed at level 1:


Change Out (Ex) At 1st level, as a full-round action, a gun scavenger can remove the broken condition from a single firearm she is currently wielding, as long as that condition was gained by a firearm misfire. When she does, she can replace the broken part with a specialized, short-lived component that does one of the following: gives the firearm the scatter weapon quality; increases the damage dealt by the pistol-whip deed by one die size; or increases the firearm's range increment by 10 feet. A firearm with such a modification increases its misfire chance cumulatively by 1 each time it is fired until it misfires. When it does misfire, the effects of the temporary component are lost. A gun scavenger must have at least 1 grit point to perform this deed. Alternatively, if the gun scavenger spends 1 grit point to perform a change out, she can either perform the change out as a standard action instead of a full-round action, or perform the change out on a firearm that isn't broken.

Suppose I use this to give the Scatter quality to a Musket or a Rifle, I load it with pellets, and fire it. What happens? Does it get the cone attack out to its range increment? Because making your full-attacks hit an entire 80ft cone seems kind of ludicrous and game-breaking to me.

Thoughts?

EDIT: For reference:
http://i.imgur.com/f9JDZ.jpg



Scatter Weapon Quality (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/firearms#TOC-Firearm-Descriptions): A weapon with the scatter weapon quality can shoot two different types of ammunition. It can fire normal bullets that target one creature, or it can make a scattering shot, attacking all creatures within a cone. Cannons with the scatter weapon quality only fire grapeshot, unless their descriptions state otherwise. When a scatter weapon attacks all creatures within a cone, it makes a separate attack roll against each creature within the cone. Each attack roll takes a –2 penalty, and its attack damage cannot be modified by precision damage or damage-increasing feats such as Vital Strike. Effects that grant concealment, such as fog or smoke, or the blur, invisibility, or mirror image spells, do not foil a scatter attack. If any of the attack rolls threaten a critical, confirm the critical for that attack roll alone. A firearm that makes a scatter shot misfires only if all of the attack rolls made misfire. If a scatter weapon explodes on a misfire, it deals triple its damage to all creatures within the misfire radius.


StreamOfTheSky

2014-07-19, 09:34 PM

The scatter property *is* ludicrous and game-breaking. Even more so than the normal gun stuff of full attacking touch AC from range with power attack. So, no surprise that combo is stupid broken. Good find, though. Unleash it on some people who insist PF's gun rules are balanced and have fun demolishing encounters.


torrasque666

2014-07-19, 11:45 PM

Would the Distance enhancement also apply? Because if so....
"Roll initiative"
"I full attack with my pepperbox rifle"
*touch AC against 160 foot cone*
"I think I just killed them all."


StreamOfTheSky

2014-07-20, 12:22 AM

For optimal use, fight in darkness, clouds, etc... since you don't care but they probably do. Also, only feat and precision bonuses to damage are nixed. All other sources still apply. I'm sure this could be exploited if given thought and a party willing to aid you...


The Grue

2014-07-20, 12:28 AM

The scatter property *is* ludicrous and game-breaking. Even more so than the normal gun stuff of full attacking touch AC from range with power attack. So, no surprise that combo is stupid broken. Good find, though. Unleash it on some people who insist PF's gun rules are balanced and have fun demolishing encounters.

The tricky thing about labeling PF's gun rules as "broken", is that you have to clarify in relation to what.

As compared to archery? Yeah, totally and completely broken. Scatterguns are way better than bows in every possible way, no question.

As compared to melee? Yeah, sure. I haven't sat down and done an in-depth comparison, but I'd believe you if you said a scattergun was better than swinging a greatsword.

As compared to eidolons? Not even close.

As compared to full casting? Not even in the same solar system.


StreamOfTheSky

2014-07-20, 12:43 AM

Well yeah. Compared to any other martial. Casters are still better, of course. I just don't like that in a game with guns all other weapons are obsolete. I realize that around the 1700-1800's this became true (native americans with bows were still a challenge for rifle-toting soldiers for quite a while still, thanks to better accuracy and much higher rate of fire), but I always understood D&D to take place in a pseudo-time period that's significantly earlier than that.

It's also that I am sick of guns *having* to be better than other weapons when included in pretty much any RPG. It's "unrealistic" otherwise. Even though in actual real life it took several centuries for guns to be outright better and they only got used in bulk before then b/c they didn't require a life-time of training to use decently.

And that full attack touch attacks is seriously overpowered. There's a reason wraithstrike gets banned so much. Casters can do many other things besides auto-kill any monster you throw at them, but that doesn't change the fact that auto-killing any monster you throw at the party is pretty unbalanced in its own right. (Yes, I also dislike uber-charge lance builds)


Slipperychicken

2014-07-20, 12:52 AM

Would the Distance enhancement also apply? Because if so....
"Roll initiative"
"I full attack with my pepperbox rifle"
*touch AC against 160 foot cone*
"I think I just killed them all."

Now we just try to get buffed with Alter Range (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/3rd-party-spells/rite-publishing---3rd-party-spells/a/alter-range), and annihilate everything in a 320ft or 240ft cone, depending on how the doublings stack.

And you don't even need the rifle to be pepperbox. A vanilla rifle already loads as a free action with metal cartridges.

EDIT:

The tricky thing about labeling PF's gun rules as "broken", is that you have to clarify in relation to what.

I call them broken because their optimization range goes from "exploding 20ft range crossbow which you can only fire every other round" to "touch AC full attacks which ignore most defenses, add Dex to damage twice, get two shots per attack, and can kill whole troop formations with a single shot".


The Grue

2014-07-20, 04:32 AM

Well yeah. Compared to any other martial. Casters are still better, of course. I just don't like that in a game with guns all other weapons are obsolete. I realize that around the 1700-1800's this became true (native americans with bows were still a challenge for rifle-toting soldiers for quite a while still, thanks to better accuracy and much higher rate of fire), but I always understood D&D to take place in a pseudo-time period that's significantly earlier than that.

It's also that I am sick of guns *having* to be better than other weapons when included in pretty much any RPG. It's "unrealistic" otherwise. Even though in actual real life it took several centuries for guns to be outright better and they only got used in bulk before then b/c they didn't require a life-time of training to use decently.

Excellent points. I think the modern opinion of guns as better than swords by default is coloured by the capabilities of modern firearms. It says a lot about the effectiveness of earlier firearms that for centuries the dominant tactic in warfare was to have your soldiers bunch up and charge the other army before shooting with their guns.


Psyren

2014-07-20, 10:22 AM

"Broken?" Give me a break.

For starters, Rifles (the source of your 80ft. cone) are advanced firearms. The game specifically warns GMs about the impact such weapons can have on balance, so if you are allowing them and you have a problem with how they function, you have only yourself to blame.


More advanced firearms are also presented for those brave enough to mix their fantasy with a technology much closer to that of the Old West than the slow and unstable weapons that gave musketeers their name. If you are interested in letting such weapons in your game, do so with the following warning:Advanced guns can substantially change the assumptions of your game world, in the same way that they changed the face of warfare in the real world. If you like your fantasy to be of the more traditional variety, stand clear. Or, better yet, run for cover.

Also, at low levels this is good but I don't see any scaling, especially since it doesn't allow precision damage and you still have to hit their (touch) AC. It's also pretty hard to position an 80' cone in such a way that it doesn't hit allies. You also have to start with a broken gun (or burn grit) and burn a whole round doing nothing but swapping in the scatter component. So I have to ask - what exactly is the big deal?


StreamOfTheSky

2014-07-20, 11:26 AM

New weapon! Light Sabre! This kewl futuristic blade costs 4000 gp (to balance its benefits, 'natch) and instantly slays any creature it strikes, because seriously...if you let a guy with a light sabre reach melee with you, you don't deserve to live.


Futuristic light sabres are also presented for those brave enough to mix their fantasy with a technology much closer to that of kickass futuristic jedi than the heavy and restrictive weapons that gave swordsmen their name. If you are interested in letting such weapons in your game, do so with the following warning:Light Sabres can substantially change the assumptions of your game world, in the same way that they changed the face of warfare in the Star Wars world. If you like your fantasy to be of the more traditional variety, stand clear. Or, better yet, run as far away and fast as you can!

I'm a competent RPG game designer who purports to write balanced rules. Since I gave a brief warning that these new weapons are super cool and awesome, I'm absolved of all responsibility for breaking the established game balance. Even if most of the "warning" text was actually me trumpeting how great the new weapons are or making fun of those poor suckers who don't like them trapped in a campaign with them more than it was actually you know...warning about them.

Totally.

Probably not accurate to how they work in the movies, considering I've never seen them. But it's damn hard to find well known sources where melee is scary and overpowered.


Thiyr

2014-07-20, 11:44 AM

You also have to start with a broken gun (or burn grit) and burn a whole round doing nothing but swapping in the scatter component.

I'm not gonna comment on the rest, but that's actually something I can see at least a way around. Either you spend time intentionally breaking it pre-combat, because there isn't a duration on the swap in, just the "eventually it breaks" limit, near as I can tell. And once you can do that, when you get to the point that you have multiple firearms (either by being high level and not caring about the gold you're spending for whatever reason, or if its a "guns everywhere" campaign setting or you have some other source of a larger quantity of guns). At that point, assuming you can get your damage up, that's a pretty notably sized cone. Even if its only for an opener, it's certainly got potential. If nothing else, you're gonna be causing some hilarious collateral damage.


Anlashok

2014-07-20, 11:57 AM

It's also that I am sick of guns *having* to be better than other weapons when included in pretty much any RPG
I'm not sure where this is coming from. My general experience has been the opposite. The obnoxious "I block the bullet with my sword" drivel seems to be way more prevalent than the opposite.

Even in Pathfinder, gunslingers are one of the worst classes in the entire game and don't have any significant advantages over -any- class in terms of raw power (and no one else can really afford to use guns except summoners. Rangers are better off using bows and having comparable DPR and more versatility. Fighters are better off using swords or bows and having better DPR, etc).

This trick is particularly silly, but in general this thread is drifting into "nerf monk" territory.


Psyren

2014-07-20, 12:22 PM

New weapon! Light Sabre! This kewl futuristic blade costs 4000 gp (to balance its benefits, 'natch) and instantly slays any creature it strikes, because seriously...if you let a guy with a light sabre reach melee with you, you don't deserve to live.

"Oh noes, I did 1d10 damage to a whole bunch of squares! And large enemies are still only hit once! Clearly this is equivalent to a sword that can kill anything in one hit and my analogy makes perfect sense!"

Unless squirrels and commoners are the height of your game's difficulty curve, who exactly is a rifle one-shotting that matters? Your usual brand of hyperbole is just getting tiresome Stream.

And even if it were the massive balance-changer you believe it to be, advanced guns did change the face of warfare. As a simulation it is not unreasonable to expect the same thing to happen here. (Though again, it certainly doesn't.)


squiggit

2014-07-20, 12:51 PM

To be fair. You could musket master with it to get AoE full attacks. And remember that for your misfire chance reduces for each new target you have with a scatter gun. So even the cumulative misfire chance should give you at least one or two good full attacks before you need to worry about fixing it again.


The Grue

2014-07-20, 01:13 PM

And even if it were the massive balance-changer you believe it to be, advanced guns did change the face of warfare. As a simulation it is not unreasonable to expect the same thing to happen here. (Though again, it certainly doesn't.)

Crossbows were arguably more revolutionary than guns, and yet crossbows in D20 are awful.

Crossbows allowed you to cheaply equip an army for fighting at range with relatively little training as compared to bows or melee weapons. At short range, a heavy crossbow could puncture plate armour which was otherwise difficult for an unskilled soldier to penetrate.

Guns entered the battlefield basically as better crossbows.


Slipperychicken

2014-07-20, 02:22 PM

[Took me a while to get this post through]


"Broken?" Give me a break.

For starters, Rifles (the source of your 80ft. cone) are advanced firearms. The game specifically warns GMs about the impact such weapons can have on balance, so if you are allowing them and you have a problem with how they function, you have only yourself to blame.



Also, at low levels this is good but I don't see any scaling, especially since it doesn't allow precision damage and you still have to hit their (touch) AC. It's also pretty hard to position an 80' cone in such a way that it doesn't hit allies. You also have to start with a broken gun (or burn grit) and burn a whole round doing nothing but swapping in the scatter component. So I have to ask - what exactly is the big deal?

For the cone hitting allies, I'd imagine our Gunslinger would go on the front of the marching order, or perhaps have melee guys simply wait in a line beside him, so he can get some cone attacks off without harming alllies (presumably the melees would delay initiative until the gunslinger makes his opening volley, and then they rush in). Also, the Scatter property allows the user to fire normal ammunition when a cone isn't desirable.

For the Advanced firearm thing, I will concede that access to a Rifle is campaign-dependent. I've been thinking about ways to get Gun Scavenger while also reliably free-action reloading muskets and not worrying about misfires as much, though it seems considerably harder than with a Rifle.

For the broken gun thing, that really isn't a big deal, since it only penalizes people who aren't the gunslinger (and who usually won't use his gun anyway), and 300gp and a day of work fixes it up to Masterwork just fine. Besides, it only applies to the starter-weapon: he can get a shiny new one later.

For misfiring, there are a few things. You only misfire a scatter-shot when every attack involved misfires, getting you more scatter-shots before you have to do the change-out action again. Otherwise, Change-Out can be used for an effect identical to Quick-Clear (though it does take a Full-Round action rather than a Standard), if the gunslinger decides not to use any of the special-modification-component options. To be eligible for the change-out prior to combat, you can easily achieve misfires by having a nonproficient ally load and fire the weapon ("a nonproficient character who loads a firearm increases all misfire values by 4 for the shots he loads").

For damage scaling, I didn't notice until you pointed it out that Deadly Aim wouldn't apply to a scatter-attack. That does hurt cone attacks' damage output, although class features such as the dex-to-damage ones from Trench Fighter and Gunslinger (these are not precision damage) would still apply, as would some other bonus damage sources like Smite or Judgement.


TheIronGolem

2014-07-20, 02:30 PM

I think this is probably not as scary as it sounds on paper. How often do you fight: 1) a huge number of opponents 2) that aren't weak mooks meant to die in droves anyway 3) on such a large battlefield that will actually let you hit something that a 60' cone (from a cone of cold, which does way more damage) wouldn't have?

Admittedly, resolving a separate attack roll for each target could get to be a pain and slow down gameplay, but that's a different issue.


Panakian D.

2014-07-20, 02:33 PM

Well I must also point out that you need a standard action to remove a brocken condition from your firearm wich cannot be reduced to a move action like in the quick clear deed. In addition you cannot make a full attack when the fighter has reached the enemy or when he is aproaching him. Also, A firearm with such a modification increases its misfire chance cumulatively by 1 each time it is fired which hurts a lot. That means that a third level human gunslinger on the second round after a full attack with a musket with paper bullets misfires at 5 and 6 which sucks!!:smallannoyed:


Slipperychicken

2014-07-20, 03:44 PM

I was looking over alchemical cartridges again, and noticed two things which could pair well with a modified musket: Salt Shot cartridges (which deal nonlethal damage, perhaps making it more friendly to friendly melee characters), and Entangling Shot (which would allow the gunslinger to entangle a potentially large number of foes in addition to the damage).

Also, it doesn't just have to be hordes of mooks. It could also be spaced-out enemies, such as a group of melee guys in front of a group of casters, archers and/or other support. It might also be devastating against swarms, depending on whether a Scatter shot counts as an area attack (if it does, it also doesn't give a save, letting it deal double damage against a swarm). It also should work well against opponents which use miss-chances for defense.


Well I must also point out that you need a standard action to remove a brocken condition from your firearm wich cannot be reduced to a move action like in the quick clear deed. In addition you cannot make a full attack when the fighter has reached the enemy or when he is aproaching him. Also, A firearm with such a modification increases its misfire chance cumulatively by 1 each time it is fired which hurts a lot. That means that a third level human gunslinger on the second round after a full attack with a musket with paper bullets misfires at 5 and 6 which sucks!!:smallannoyed:

1. You can totally make attacks after the fighter reaches an enemy. You just load normal shots once you don't want the cone anymore.

2. If we're using a Rifle, like I said in the OP, that misfire chance isn't such a big deal. Advanced firearms don't explode, so the worst that could happen is the Broken condition (that is, a -2 to hit and +2 over the default misfire chance), which you can take an action to remove if you like.

3. The "Change Out" deed only gives the cumulative misfire increase if you use a modification. You can choose not to use a modification, and then it works much like Quick Clear.


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Pathfinder D/&D RPG 5e 28mm Terrain DnD Tabletop Games Scatter Terrain Modular Rocks Complete Set for Dungeons and Dragons
Pathfinder D/&D RPG 5e 28mm Terrain DnD Tabletop Games Scatter Terrain Modular Rocks Complete Set for Dungeons and Dragons
Pathfinder D/&D RPG 5e 28mm Terrain DnD Tabletop Games Scatter Terrain Modular Rocks Complete Set for Dungeons and Dragons

Pathfinder D&D RPG 5e 28mm Terrain DnD Tabletop Games Scatter Terrain Modular Rocks Complete Set for Dungeons and Dragons

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Sours: https://hitechic.ir/Toys-&-Games/tyafgm-134588/Dungeons-and-Dragons-Pathfinder-D&D-RPG-e-mm-Terrain.action

Pathfinder scatter

Scatter Gunner

Careful Shot (Ex) As long as a scatter gunner has at least 1 grit point when making a scattering shot, he takes a penalty equal to his Wisdom modifier on his attack rolls against any allies in the area. He can spend 1 grit point when making a scattering shot to automatically miss a number of creatures equal to his Wisdom modifier.

This replaces the deadeye deed.

Scatter Artist (Ex) At 3rd level, when using a firearm to make a scattering shot, a scatter gunner can spend 1 grit point to add one of the following effects to his attack.

  • Restricted Barrel: The scattering shot attacks all creatures in a line rather than in a cone. The line’s length is twice the length of the weapon’s cone (30 feet for most early firearms).
  • Shaped Blast: Select one additional square adjacent to the scattering shot’s area of effect; creatures in this square are also affected by the scattering shot.
  • Vortex: The firearm releases an explosive torrent of air in the scattering shot’s affected area for 1 round, creating a strong wind effect (25 mph) that can disperse fog and smoke effects such as those created by fog cloud.

This replaces the utility shot deed.

Overload (Ex) At 7th level, a scatter gunner knows just how to hold his weapon to maximize its devastating scattering effects. As a full-round action, a scatter gunner can make a scattering shot to fire a concentrated payload of pellets that strains his firearm. This doubles the area affected by the scattering shot (a 30-foot cone for most early firearms), increases the firearm’s misfire value by 2 and causes each successful attack to deal an additional 1d6 points of damage that is not multiplied on a critical hit. This additional damage increases to 2d6 at 13th level and 3d6 at 19th level. The scatter gunner must spend 1 grit point to perform this deed.

This replaces the dead shot deed.

Satchel Shot (Ex) At 7th level, as a full-round action, a scatter gunner can load and fire an explosive shell, consuming ammunition as though he had made a scattering shot.

This functions like throwing a splash weapon at a grid intersection but uses his firearm’s range increment, attack bonus, and magic special abilities (if any). The shell affects creatures in a 10-foot radius as though the scatter gunner had made a scattering shot against them, and damaged creatures must succeed at a Reflex save (DC = 10 + half the scatter gunner’s level + the scatter gunner’s Dexterity modifier) or catch fire.

This replaces the targeting deed.

Sours: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo-gunslinger-archetypes/scatter-gunner-gunslinger-archetype/
Elemental Rock with LED Light for Tabletop Gaming - Scatter Terrain and Diorama - Scatter-rama?

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